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Post by sandrinha on Jul 11, 2008 16:09:59 GMT -5
I'm oddly attracted to this ship because i think there is more then meets the eye with Cameron and i think that the only person that can trully *read* her (and i don't mean that in computer terms) is/will be John.
John gives her the possibility to be seen as more then a mere machine (some times), perhaps because he is young and needs to trust someone but perhaps because he knows that if his future self sent her and not a T-800 to protect him there must have been a reason for it.
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Post by allergygal on Jul 11, 2008 16:42:31 GMT -5
I don't go for this ship at all, but I do think John is a little confused by Cameron looking human but being a cyborg. He thinks she's a hot girl he kind of grinned when she touched his neck. Then he angrily blamed her when she stopped him from trying to save the suicide girl (although he got over that in about 3 minutes). He declared she has no soul and never will when he took out her chip, yet he seemed worried about hurting her when he cut into her head. He knows she lies, he tries to order her around, he defends her as being different. He's just a big ol' mess when it comes to Cameron.
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t101
Major
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Post by t101 on Jul 11, 2008 16:49:44 GMT -5
^ That's how I see it too. He likes her, he knows he shouldn't.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Jul 11, 2008 16:56:29 GMT -5
The interesting thing about John is that he's the only one of the characters in the T-verse with positive experiences of terminators - they're his protectors and friends. He's never seen one come for him and keep coming and been helpless as it killed everyone he cared about. There's always been an Uncle Bob or a Cameron to fight for him so John sees them as objects of utility whereas Sarah and Derek (and Kyle - what did Kyle think of his hero's use of metal?) see them as essentially evil and, in fact, regard their amoral nature as evil in and of itself rather than a fact of their mechanical existence.
(Hmmm, I'm apparently lonesome for Husserl)
Anyway, since John has no animus towards terminators as objects in themselves, he's vulnerable to forming an emotional attachment to Cameron that Sarah, for example, actively resists. So, intellectually he knows she's a scary robot but emotionally he sees his protector and companion. And, at 16, whoa do the lines get blurred and blurred quick.
But John and Cameron having an actually relationship? No. I'd be here for years if we got into the question of whether or not a robot can consent in general and whether or not Cameron in specific had that autonomy.
John feeling very confused about why he sent himself a hot teenaged terminator to protect him? Oh, yeah.
The Connors' psychic pain entertains me.
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Post by allergygal on Jul 11, 2008 17:31:52 GMT -5
John feeling very confused about why he sent himself a hot teenaged terminator to protect him? Oh, yeah. I really wish they'd address this in the show. I mean seriously, both John and Sarah must wonder why future!John sent back a teen girl robot to live with them.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Jul 11, 2008 18:14:25 GMT -5
John feeling very confused about why he sent himself a hot teenaged terminator to protect him? Oh, yeah. I really wish they'd address this in the show. I mean seriously, both John and Sarah must wonder why future!John sent back a teen girl robot to live with them. And "because God understands my sense of humour and wants me to be happy" is a ridiculously solipsistic and meta-textual answer. ;D
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Post by vicheron on Jul 11, 2008 20:33:35 GMT -5
The interesting thing about John is that he's the only one of the characters in the T-verse with positive experiences of terminators - they're his protectors and friends. He's never seen one come for him and keep coming and been helpless as it killed everyone he cared about. There's always been an Uncle Bob or a Cameron to fight for him so John sees them as objects of utility whereas Sarah and Derek (and Kyle - what did Kyle think of his hero's use of metal?) see them as essentially evil and, in fact, regard their amoral nature as evil in and of itself rather than a fact of their mechanical existence. The T-1000 killed John's step parents and it almost killed Sarah and Uncle Bob. Plus John grew up with Sarah telling him about how horrible the future will be and how ruthless the Terminators are. So his experiences with Terminators aren't all positive. Sarah Connor came to respect Uncle Bob at the end of T2. She knew that Uncle Bob would die to protect John and there was the whole, "if a machine can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too" thing. I would say that Sarah's feelings towards Terminators are more conflicted since the same model that killed her friend, her mother, and Kyle Reese also saved John and sacrificed himself in the hopes of saving the human race. Cameron's behavior may have caused Sarah to take a more anti-Terminator stance but she'll likely be more lenient to a protector Terminator who's completely loyal. I think that there's their experiences with Uncle Bob is affecting how they view Cameron. Sarah could carry a lot of resentment over the fact that Uncle Bob's sacrifice really meant nothing and that she was the one who lowered him down into the molten steel. She may be more resistant to Cameron because she's reverting back to the idea that Judgment Day has already happened and that everyone is already dead. John may think that he failed Uncle Bob by letting him be destroyed and hopes to do better with Cameron. It is interesting how a lot of people are assuming that Cameron would be willing to go along if John decided that he wants a relationship with her. Future John always has something planned. He may not be all knowing but everything he does has a deliberate purpose.
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Post by Derek Reese on Jul 11, 2008 21:15:33 GMT -5
This is the shipper discussion. As in PRO-SHIPPER, dealing with the morality of the nature of the relationship goes elsewhere. I understand that the morality comes along with it, but the thread is clearly stated: JOHN/CAMERON. If anyone is against the idea of it, I suggest you create a thread about the morality of the nature of it.
Check here for further discussion: tsccsociety.proboards52.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=skynet&thread=457
Back on topic.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Jul 12, 2008 0:33:21 GMT -5
Fair point. Sorry, Twilight. I forgot.
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Post by Derek Reese on Jul 12, 2008 0:50:40 GMT -5
No harm done.
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Post by neelasgto on Jul 12, 2008 23:35:32 GMT -5
I think we will see how he feels about her by how hard he tries to get her back after her chip wigs out in S2
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Post by Derek Reese on Jul 13, 2008 14:40:39 GMT -5
Makes sense.
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Post by sandrinha on Jul 13, 2008 15:36:18 GMT -5
I think part of the reason why future!John is the leader of the revolution is that he doesn't give up on people, so i can see present!John doing the same to Cameron in S2. No giving up on her just because she had a malfunction. It's John's humanity (coupled with knowledge of course) that will make him a leader, so what a better example to show this then on Cameron -a terminator gone awok.
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Post by terminatornerd on Aug 9, 2008 10:06:27 GMT -5
Dekker has already mentioned that John loves her, but doesn't know how to get his foot out of his mouth [my words] long enough to really express what he feels.
He seems to want to deny it by being argumentative or jerkish towards Cameron.
In another thread I expressed my opinion that their true feelings come through when it counts, though.
Mod Note - Edited due to the fact that spoilers of the upcoming season being discussed. Please keep spoiler discussion within spoiler areas until the episodes have aired. Thanks.
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Post by taurus on Aug 13, 2008 15:17:07 GMT -5
yes
summer says to SFX Magazine : "I think Cameron feels as close to love for John as a robot could"
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