rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on May 6, 2008 15:31:19 GMT -5
Which might in fact be a very good idea.
Because if he only manages to kil some of them...and they are likely replaced (or not)- it would not I wouldn't think have very much of an effect upon Skynets development.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on May 8, 2008 22:14:56 GMT -5
I think that's a far bigger stumbling block right now than Kyle Reese, IMO. I think Sarah understands why Derek does what he does, the way he does, but the boy needs to have a "come to Jesus" moment otherwise, she's going to have to put him down like a rabid dog. That "we'll destroy the world to save it" bs is what got the human race enough nuclear weapons to destroy the planet four or fives times over (some of which have disappeared to God knows where) - I would think the writers haven't lost sight of that fact. Yeah, she understands why he killed Andy since she almost did the same thing once with Dyson. And I guess that's why she was really only angry about him lying to her. The only reason I can even think for Derek lying is because he intends to hunt down and kill the rest of the guys Andy worked with. And he knows if he told her the whole story, she'd just try to stop him. I tend to be a little Occamish about Derek's lie myself - when you do something you're not proud of, your first instinct is to lie about it. And he's talking to Sarah-freaking-Connor. Afterwards, it's too late to take it back and Derek has a better reason for lying - he doesn't want to alienate Kyle's family.
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Post by allergygal on May 10, 2008 14:40:56 GMT -5
Yeah, she understands why he killed Andy since she almost did the same thing once with Dyson. And I guess that's why she was really only angry about him lying to her. The only reason I can even think for Derek lying is because he intends to hunt down and kill the rest of the guys Andy worked with. And he knows if he told her the whole story, she'd just try to stop him. I tend to be a little Occamish about Derek's lie myself - when you do something you're not proud of, your first instinct is to lie about it. And he's talking to Sarah-freaking-Connor. Afterwards, it's too late to take it back and Derek has a better reason for lying - he doesn't want to alienate Kyle's family. Ah, but he tells Sarah-freaking-Connor that he thought she killed Andy. So I don't see it as a lie to save face, thinking he'd done something shameful. If it was, then that means he'd just projected that shameful act onto her. I still think Derek lied about killing Andy to prevent questions that might expose his secret agenda to hunt and kill the others.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on May 10, 2008 19:51:59 GMT -5
I agree with you insofar as Derek perpetuated the lie by lying about his knowledge of what Sayles was up to (dude, he so must have known) to keep his agenda and involvement in Andy's death a secret. But the original lie protected his agenda only if Derek believed that Sarah Connor might put a bullet in his head if she found out the truth. And since he didn't seem to expect Sarah would break him out or even seem to think that she was capable of breaking him out, I find it hard to believe that he actually felt threatened by her.
Awed, attracted and a little star-struck but not threatened. Derek's the skeptic, right? The one who doesn't believe in the Connor mystique or the Connor legend, who hates the photo Kyle carries around and hates John Connor for taking Kyle away from him. Despite his "you're prettier than you picture" fanboy moment, Derek doesn't really seem to think Sarah's all that tough (my new thinking on Derek's pure heart comment is that he's pumping John for information on Sarah, perhaps to see if her threat to kill him if he lies to her again is bona fide. That would tie with the theory going around that Derek's about to resume his one man war on computer scientists. Don't piss off Sarah, Derek. That would be bad). Tougher than the average bear but not the legend John Connor talks about and his desire to keep the Connors off the T-888's radar seems genuine. The thought that she could or would break him out of jail doesn't appear to have occurred to him and, given the handcuff scene, Derek is already making his plans to escape on his own.
So why lie? What does he think Sarah's going to do? Assuming he survives the next 24 hours? Furthermore, Derek has proof that Andy Goode was one of a group responsible for creating Skynet but, although he sends Sarah after the Turk, he doesn't share that information. Information which could help narrow the search for the scientists responsible for developing the Skynet system.
Played forward in time, I would agree that withholding that information makes it look like Derek has an agenda. At the time, it's a bad tactical decision. And he has no reason not to tell her. Really, what's the worst that could happen? She'll leave him to get killed by a pissed-off terminator?
To me, the only answer that makes sense - based in part on a comment from TheTurk that Billy Wisher was Derek's best friend and comrade - is that lying was an instinctive reaction. "Projecting" the lie onto Sarah just means he's a really good liar, which is an interesting character trait in itself. The kind that makes me wonder if they had prisons post-Judgement Day. Just how did Derek Reese - who's "not a priest, far from it" - end up a respected soldier?
Whether he continues to lie because he doesn't want to alienate John (and his "you'd do anything to keep from seeing it burn again" had a tinge of apologia to it, like he wanted to convince John that his actions were justified) and Sarah or because he plans to go on assassinating Skynet's potential parents I'll agree is an open question.
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Post by allergygal on May 10, 2008 23:25:36 GMT -5
(my new thinking on Derek's pure heart comment is that he's pumping John for information on Sarah, perhaps to see if her threat to kill him if he lies to her again is bona fide. That would tie with the theory going around that Derek's about to resume his one man war on computer scientists. Don't piss off Sarah, Derek. That would be bad). That could be. I always read Derek's smirk when he said the pure heart like as him just being arrogant and sort of mocking Sarah, but maybe that was his way of trying to get info out of John while seeming casual. The "it's good to keep a pure heart" follow-up confuses me in that interpretation, though. Future!John might no be Derek's favorite person, but I don't think he has anything against Sarah and John. I have no doubt he'd do anything he could to protect them. Well we know he's one of John's best soldiers, according to Cameron, but respected? I'm not sure about that.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on May 11, 2008 14:20:20 GMT -5
Well we know he's one of John's best soldiers, according to Cameron, but respected? I'm not sure about that. Yeah, right, my bad. We actually have some evidence to the contrary from D&D, don't we? When Timms meets Derek in the Torture House, he knows Kyle's name and reputation but not Derek's. I thought that was a very nice touch. Keeping in mind that my theory is a work-in-progress and I haven't rewatched this episode recently, it could be interpreted as Derek trying further to draw John out. What I liked about that scene (apart from the wee Kyle stuff, aw!) is that John doesn't answer, barely seems to react at all to the question. He just lets Derek keep talking. Looking at John's character, that could be seen as a sign that John's already growing psychologically adept at handling people or he's conditioned not to talk about Sarah and what Sarah does with people. Both are really interesting. There's a third possibility, given how TSCC likes to mirror scenes, that John's thinking "oh, man, first Morris now Derek - is there anyone who doesn't want to use me to get closer to some girl?" But I've come to believe that rather than an absolute character judgement on Derek's part, he's at least half trying to get John to give up something on Sarah. I like to believe it's because he's got half a crush on her already and not because he needs to know if she's going to get in the way of his plan to assassinate the other potential Skynet designers. He already knows she won't approve but he could be looking to see if she is capable of compromising his mission.
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Post by vicheron on May 11, 2008 18:35:32 GMT -5
I think that Derek understands that he's being manipulated by future John. He now knows how John had prepared Kyle for his mission back in time. He's definitely skeptical of what future John really has planned for him. His attitude towards the Connors is an attempt to figure out what future John has planned for him. It would be ironic if his actions towards John is what results in future John's plans for him.
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Post by Derek Reese on Jul 7, 2008 19:49:14 GMT -5
That it would, but at this point nothing seems to be happening between at least during the first season. Except for Sarah taking charge of Derek in regards to Derek killing. Its read to me like she's got a tighter on eye on him, when she can, but only time will tell if she truly does.
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Post by sandrinha on Jul 13, 2008 15:42:07 GMT -5
I think that if Derek crosses Sarah again, he will get his ass kicked big time.
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Post by sabaceanbabe on Jul 24, 2008 13:46:34 GMT -5
I've never seen Farscape, but I like that sound of that kind of relationship -- less cliched, more adult. If approached right, you can have plenty of drama and tension even in an on-going relationship. TV shows always seems to assume that once two people get together that's it, parties over and they lived happily ever after. You soooooo need to watch Farscape. OMG! Anyway... The moment Sarah beat Derek up in Queen's Gambit (?), I was on board with this ship. The fact that we went several episodes after that without anything of overt attraction between the two, but rather a developing mutual respect between them just makes me all the more interested. Relationships, especially ones between two people who are so very broken, should develop over time. Of course that's not to say that they can't consummate it physicially right up front. ;D
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Post by Derek Reese on Jul 24, 2008 13:52:49 GMT -5
Here's what BAG had to say about their relationship in TV Guide:
WILL THERE BE ROMANCE BETWEEN DEREK AND SARAH?
I don't think that's happening anytime soon.
WHAT IS THEIR RELATIONSHIP?
Derek is somebody she can trust to get the job done. Sarah runs the show. We disagree on things, and we have our arguments and our little isssues-but she's the mother of the savior of all mankind, so......
-TV GUIDE, July 14-20
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Post by sabaceanbabe on Jul 24, 2008 15:34:56 GMT -5
I've seen Derek described elsewhere as Sarah's Junk Yard Dog, and it looks like that's going to continue into s2. Yay!
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Post by Derek Reese on Jul 24, 2008 15:37:23 GMT -5
That's an interesting comparsion. Then again, someone has to get their hands dirty, when it comes down to the mission.
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Post by allergygal on Jul 25, 2008 0:51:25 GMT -5
I've never seen Farscape, but I like that sound of that kind of relationship -- less cliched, more adult. If approached right, you can have plenty of drama and tension even in an on-going relationship. TV shows always seems to assume that once two people get together that's it, parties over and they lived happily ever after. You soooooo need to watch Farscape. OMG! Anyway... The moment Sarah beat Derek up in Queen's Gambit (?), I was on board with this ship. The fact that we went several episodes after that without anything of overt attraction between the two, but rather a developing mutual respect between them just makes me all the more interested. Relationships, especially ones between two people who are so very broken, should develop over time. Of course that's not to say that they can't consummate it physicially right up front. ;D Oh I did (watch Farscape). I saw the whole series since that post and long for more! As for Sarah and Derek, they definitely have some common ground and while I think it started out as mutual respect, I'm not so sure Sarah respects Derek all that much anymore. He lies, he kills, he's too risky. But because he's Kyle's brother - because he's John's uncle, she's hesitant to do anything about it. It makes for interesting interactions, I think. And I'll admit have some lusty thoughts about them (although it betrays my Sarah/Charley heart). But if there's going to be anything physical between them, I think it needs to start with Sarah finally hitting a breaking point over his questionable ethics and kicking his ass first
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Jul 28, 2008 15:12:39 GMT -5
I could see it physically going somewhere, but I doubt it's going to be healthy transition. Indeed. No matter how you slice it, there's just nothing healthy about those two getting together! Yeah, that's the fun part.
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