k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
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Post by k8ie on Sept 18, 2008 16:30:46 GMT -5
One thing I do agree with, he listened to better music in T2. Come on, how do you go from rockin' a Public Enemy t-shirt to listening to the incredible crappy music of Incubus in the pilot? John isn't Nu. Put some death metal in the boy's speakers. LOL - I liked the Rage Against the Machine poster in the pilot -- it seemed an age-appropriate segue.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 18, 2008 16:44:03 GMT -5
One thing I do agree with, he listened to better music in T2. Come on, how do you go from rockin' a Public Enemy t-shirt to listening to the incredible crappy music of Incubus in the pilot? John isn't Nu. Put some death metal in the boy's speakers. LOL - I liked the Rage Against the Machine poster in the pilot -- it seemed an age-appropriate segue. Whoa, there was a Rage poster in the pilot? I've never noticed that and I've watched that episode more than any other ep. I need to go back and look for that. It's too bad they haven't reached out any of these artists to use their music on the show. I'm still waiting for a Terminator VS Terminator scene with some White Zombie playing in the background. That's probably wishful thinking, but I just can't stand it when TV shows use the typical Nu-Metal approach.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Sept 18, 2008 16:57:00 GMT -5
I think licensing rights for a lot of that ^^ sort of music is massively expensive. And I'm 90 per cent about the poster - on the headboard of his bed in Nebraska. eta: Yep, on the headboard, it's a kind of towelly-type deal -- sarahconnorsociety.net/photogallery/displayimage.php?album=56&pos=207While I'm on the subject, I really liked Dekker's work in the pilot.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 18, 2008 17:05:52 GMT -5
Wow, I can't believe I never noticed that. Thanks a lot for pointing that out, haha.
Edit: ha, there's even a Dropkick Murphys poster.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Sept 18, 2008 17:34:13 GMT -5
I can see John spending a lot of time listening to the Green Fields of France and thinking about his father. As for the difference between T2 and TSCC John (besides the fact that Thomas Dekker is an accomplished and talented actor and Eddie Furlong was an amateur who's real-life persona gelled with the role), I think you need to consider how much of John's behaviour then was a reaction to what he believed was his mother's complete fruit-loop-itude. At the start of T2, John believes everything Sarah told him is complete "bullshit" and she's spent the last three (TSCC time and at least six months per T2's script) in a state psychiatric hospital. He's acting out his sense of betrayal and rage the way a kid does - getting into trouble, flouting authority and telling everyone and everything to eff off (gee, might there be a parallel in "Automatic for the People"). Even if I weren't naturally contrary I'd be inclined to argue that John in TSCC is probably closer to John Connor's natural personality than the punk at the start of T2 -- if you could ever assign a true value to such an idea.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 18, 2008 18:14:58 GMT -5
^^^ Agreed.
I think Dekker has been the best John Connor yet. I'd take his version of JC over Eddie's or Nick's any day of the week.
It kills me to slam Nick's version, as I am a fan of a lot of his movies, but he wasn't a very good JC, at all.
Oh, and it's really weird refering to John Connor as JC, haha.
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Post by aceplace57 on Sept 18, 2008 18:52:53 GMT -5
Dekker does a great job. He's a very talented actor. But, he's limited by the storylines they give him. I wish they'd write some cool stuff for John to do. I'd love seeing Dekker take that writing and make John a slam'n character that would get new fans excited about the show.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Sept 18, 2008 20:01:28 GMT -5
I think that's kind of the point, Ace - the Sarah Connor Chronicles is (in part) the story of John's coming of age but it's told from his mother's point of view. But to come of age, you need to start somewhere, and John's a fairly realistic portrayal of a 16-year-old (as things go on TV) anyway. If he starts out Batman, there's no story. Or worse, he's Wesley Crusher - so perfect and Mary Sue there's no one to relate to. Or you get The Dark Knight where the character's so uber-competent people care more about the villains. I like my heroes (or even my future heroes) flawed and struggling. And I love John and Sarah's relationship and the way Josh and Co have decided to tell it.
Perfection is boring and false perfection insulting. Gimme something real to sink my teeth into - and for all the killer robots from the future, John's struggle to find himself and to define himself in the face of his mother's overwhelming personality is very real to me. I can relate to that. Maybe it's a little too real for some people but I think it's magic.
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equustel
Refugee
noise for your eyes
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Post by equustel on Sept 23, 2008 16:27:25 GMT -5
I actually always loved Eddie's portrayal in T2. It's part of what made me so disappointed with Nick Stahl's take: that John retained none of the spark and personality of his T2 self. I couldn't connect them, and thus T3 lost a lot of impact it might have had for me.
I was worried the same would be the case with Dekker - that the super-serious, humorless JC would once again be assumed as a characterization. And while Dekker's portrayal does have a necessary gravity to it, there are moments where I can draw a line back to Eddie, and I like that. ("You've reached the future leader of mankind, leave a message" was one scene where it was easy. *g*)
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rossbondreturns
Corporal
Summer 08 Wallpaper Challenge Winner!
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Post by rossbondreturns on Sept 23, 2008 18:45:16 GMT -5
To be very frank.
I'm glad I cannot picture T:SCC John as a older version of Furlongs John because Furlongs John just didn't hit ANY sort of notes with me except sour ones.
At least with Nick I had an Aces actor who managed to display the emotions and sensibilities required by the script. I felt his pain and longing for Sarah after her death. I felt his disgust and annoyance at Judgment day being inevitable. I felt his hope and bravado at going to Crystal Peak to take it to Skynet. I think for having the character arc of going from off the grid to taking charge in on short day he did a mighty fine job.
And this is coming from one of the people who was up for the role in opposition to him.
Maybe as a writer of scripts and almost actor of Johns part in T3 I am biased but the take of the part of John in T3 really appealed to me. It's a pity I didn't get the part.
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Post by allergygal on Sept 23, 2008 19:54:00 GMT -5
I'm with equustel in loving T2 John. And I like when I can see some of that smart ass humor in TSCC John (just like when I see a little crazy in TSCC Sarah). These are new interpretations of the characters, but they're still bringing the history of the first 2 films with them, so I like getting those connections. That said, TSCC John wouldn't work if he was the same kind of bratty smart ass as T2 John. It would be unrealistic. His circumstances changed and he's older.
I know John isn't very likable right now, but I'm finally interested in seeing where his character goes. I liked him early last season and then he pretty much lost me for the rest of it. I never thought he was whiny like so many did, just kind of bland and inconsistent. But he's finally got me back. I would never be able to believe John Connor grows up to become the savior of mankind without going through a period of rebelling against it (and I'm not counting his T2 days - that was triggered by thinking his mom was a whacko, not because he himself was questioning). So unlikable as he is at the moment, I think it's a believable journey and I'm looking forward to how it plays out.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Sept 28, 2008 6:00:52 GMT -5
I like the way Tom (and the writers) are doing John these days. And supposedly it gets "worse" - as Tom puts it - as the season goes on.
He does stupid stuff - but he's learning from it. That's how it works. And he does risky stuff like bringing Cameron back without any real evidence that she was straightened out. In short, he goes "off the rails" like we saw in the "Heavy Metal" episode. But that IS how the future John works, according to Cameron in that episode. He's not predictable and he's not that concerned how others see him. So while some people might think he's merely being a spoiled brat, I think it's more a case of him learning to be truly independent of any preconceived notions.
I would like to see him sort of develop into what is referred to in Zen as a "Zen man": someone who is free of all preconceptions and who always reacts appropriately to any situation and who is outside all external authority. That would be a guy who could defeat a machine like Skynet. Somebody predictable would probably end up dead.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Sept 28, 2008 6:03:40 GMT -5
Speaking of music, I guess neither John nor Tom is a Corrs fan, like I am! ;D ;D ;D
If he saw those three hot Corrs girls, he would be!
I just love Andrea! Summer reminds me a lot of Andrea Corr. She's nice like Andrea, has that sort of quiet shyness like Andrea, and also has even more funny "monkey face" facial expressions than Andrea! And she's as talented as Andrea in her own profession.
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Post by tzigone on Sept 28, 2008 11:34:55 GMT -5
Exactly. And I love that about him. He does what he thinks is right (and that I tend to agree with his decisions regarding Skynet and saving lives is certainly part of why I love it). He wants to help. He wants to save people. And he won't let himself be talked out of doing what he believes is right. A very important trait in a leader. Of course, he has to listen to others, to consider what they say. But it is the responsibility of the leader (in this sort of non-democratic situation) to make the decision - not anyone else's.
John takes risks. It's not stupidity - he knows the risk, knows he could get killed. Keeping himself safe isn't enough reason not to do something. If his skills are better used elsewhere, if someone else can do the job better - those are reasons. But "it's not safe" - that's no excuse for a hero. If he took the safe way, kept himself safe, he'd never have beaten Skynet.
If he'd been "reasonable" humanity would be dead.
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traitorsgate
Sergeant
This is Cam. She's trained for an Off-World kick murder squad. Talk about Beauty and the Beast.
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Post by traitorsgate on Sept 28, 2008 16:38:00 GMT -5
I frankly still don't see what John Connor is doing this season that is meant to be so irresponsible. There were any number of instances in the first season that he was off on his own without either Sarah & Cameron there to hold his hand. So really if his life was genuinely in imminent danger as some people seem to think it is, they would have locked him in a basement and thrown away the keys. From what I can see the only thing that's changed this season aside from the dodgy haircut is he doesn't seem like a complete waste of space like he did in the first season. He's still got a long way to go before he can convince the masses that he's the future leader of all humanity, but let's face it he ain't ever going to do that by hiding at home behind his mother's skirt.
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