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Post by potomac79 on Jan 6, 2009 0:49:57 GMT -5
Speaking of which, what the heck is Cameron's misson anyway and who DOES she report to? Because she leaves him alone a lot for a machine programmed to protect him at all costs (I realize that this has probably been discussed extensively here already but it bears repeating). I was going to yammer away with my ideas on this, but I wrote something concerning my thoughts on Cameron's agenda back in November and I'm too tired to summarize it at the mo'. Here's the link: T:TSCC - Speculating on Cameron’s Agenda
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terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
Posts: 445
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Post by terrasj on Jan 6, 2009 11:12:13 GMT -5
Interesting and very well thought out thoughts and ideas potomac79! Quite a few good points, covering a few different possibilities for each scenario or aspect about Cameron's agenda. Karma.
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Post by potomac79 on Jan 19, 2009 0:27:12 GMT -5
So...it was a slow Sunday and I started thinking (ruh-roh): what happens with Cameron if Skynet is provably thwarted, or if John dies? Does she go all Uncle Bob and commit Suicide by Connors? Does she go, "Oh well, at least I'll be the cutest robot in the factory"? Does she just go into stand-by mode and stand motionless because she has nothing to do? I guess the larger question is: if the Connors prevent Armageddon from happening...then what? After all, Buffy and the Scooby gang made plans to go to the mall and do some shopping. True, the apocalyptic battle destroyed the mall (and the town), but at least a plan was in place. What do the Connors have? I've already posted a few more of my thoughts on my blog TTSCC - Cameron’s Fate If The Connors Stop Skynet’s Creation .
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Post by richardstevenhack on Jan 19, 2009 21:14:39 GMT -5
From your blog post: Cameron’s agenda? 1: Protect John. 2: Try to prevent Skynet from being built. 3: Ensure that she does get built (I think by having the Turk evolve and grow). 4: Have John make her his confidant. 5: Find a meaning to her existence beyond protecting John; i.e. faith. I like all that. It basically agrees with my thesis that Cameron is the one machine besides Skynet that has a sense of self-preservation and has come back in time to insure that she survives the future by protecting John and stopping Skynet from existing. And that she needs John because he is the only one who can protect her from the rest of humanity - at least until she knows enough about current society to fit in invisibly. Which leads in to the last question - what would she do if Skynet was permanently prevented from existing, or if John were killed? I think in the former, she would stay with John until she was confident of her ability to blend in with humanity, at which point she might or might not leave him. In the latter case, she would continue to try to destroy Skynet on her own or with whoever is left alive in the Connor camp. Anybody up for a spin-off show called "Terminator: The Cameron Chronicles" if TSCC is canceled? The character is so rich in story-telling potential that it would be a no-brainer.
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Post by potomac79 on Jan 20, 2009 0:51:02 GMT -5
Hey, I'd be willing to write a teleplay or a hundred to that end. A robot, who has no desire to be human, having to convincingly blend in with humans in order to find out what it means to be a robot. I'd make it sort of like "The Incredible Hulk" and have her go from town to town, trying to set right their various up-turned turtles, and also trying to evade those who have knowledge of her being not-exactly human (that shiny metal endo-skeleton is sort of a give-away). It touches on humanity, technology, faith, and also of being a threatened minority.
So, the high-concept pitch for the suits: It's "The Incredible Hulk", except with a really pretty robot instead of a big green dude.
I like it.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Jan 21, 2009 6:52:53 GMT -5
Cameron: Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
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Post by aceplace57 on Feb 7, 2009 23:20:15 GMT -5
I hope the show continues exploring Cameron's life away from the Connor. I could easily see her mixing with humans, going to social events etc. It would be field research for her assimilation programming. The more she interacts with humans the better she'll get.
The episode with Cameron at the library was a good start. It also showed that her assimilation programming still needs work. Encouraging someone to shoot a large pistol in the library is not the best way to blend in. ;D
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Post by nordwest on Feb 8, 2009 14:23:16 GMT -5
From your blog post: I like all that. It basically agrees with my thesis that Cameron is the one machine besides Skynet that has a sense of self-preservation and has come back in time to insure that she survives the future by protecting John and stopping Skynet from existing. And that she needs John because he is the only one who can protect her from the rest of humanity - at least until she knows enough about current society to fit in invisibly. I think, that the T2 final scenes suggest that self-preservation would not something exclusive to Cameron. Technically it does make sense, that all Terminators share this to some degree.
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Post by vicheron on Feb 8, 2009 19:14:23 GMT -5
It was established in T2 that Terminators can't self terminate so clearly they have been programmed preserve themselves as long as it doesn't interfere with their mission. Also we don't know if Cameron has a survival instinct like humans where she just wants to stay alive for the sake of being alive or if she only wants to preserve herself for the mission. After all, even the Terminator in T1 fled as the cops showed up after the first chase scene when the odds were against him.
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terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
Posts: 445
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Post by terrasj on Feb 10, 2009 3:09:54 GMT -5
So...it was a slow Sunday and I started thinking (ruh-roh): what happens with Cameron if Skynet is provably thwarted, or if John dies? Does she go all Uncle Bob and commit Suicide by Connors? Does she go, "Oh well, at least I'll be the cutest robot in the factory"? Does she just go into stand-by mode and stand motionless because she has nothing to do? I guess the larger question is: if the Connors prevent Armageddon from happening...then what? After all, Buffy and the Scooby gang made plans to go to the mall and do some shopping. True, the apocalyptic battle destroyed the mall (and the town), but at least a plan was in place. What do the Connors have? I've already posted a few more of my thoughts on my blog TTSCC - Cameron’s Fate If The Connors Stop Skynet’s Creation . More interesting speculation. Definitely not bad thoughts there. Some nice topics that could be explored further via fan-fic. It was established in T2 that Terminators can't self terminate so clearly they have been programmed preserve themselves as long as it doesn't interfere with their mission. Also we don't know if Cameron has a survival instinct like humans where she just wants to stay alive for the sake of being alive or if she only wants to preserve herself for the mission. After all, even the Terminator in T1 fled as the cops showed up after the first chase scene when the odds were against him. Except that Victoria did nuke her own chip. While that may be a feature exclusive to Victoria's line and newer models, we do know that Cameron is able to selectively override her core programming. Thats one of the things that separates her from Uncle Bob. Cameron can also shed tears, but thats another topic for another post. Basically, if Victoria can self-terminate, and Cameron can override her own programming, then whats it to Cameron to willingly terminate herself should she have to at some point? She becomes damaged beyond repair, and once her backup batteries runs out, her body would be technology that could fall into the wrong hands. She makes a choice that'll destroy whats left of her, without leaving salvageable evidence behind which was the mistake from T1. Or likewise, if she's the only remaining future technology on the planet. John not wanting to let go of her like he already once did with Uncle Bob. So Cameron would have to go out on her own, with a container of Thermite, lay down somewheres, pour it over herself, light a flare and as it ignites the thermite, shut herself off. Or if we replayed a similar ending to T2, nice big steel smelting plant, I think Cameron would be able to step off (or pull herself off) the platform's edge, and we'd get some heavily sad rendition of the theme song (maybe with Enya-like choir hymn accompaniment in place of the keyboard synthesizer for the main notes) as the camera goes into slow motion, zooming into the fine details of her hair wisping upwards, even a few tears streaking down, and couple of power perspective shots from John and Cams view, then the big splashdown. I'm certainly not wishing for it by any means, I just think if it really came down to it, Cameron would be able to do it herself, even have to do it herself because this time, John's not that 12yr old kid that'll do it because he's simply told he has to. Or because he won't be around to do it. That being said, touching on what potomac79 said in his last TIB instalment "TTSCC - Cameron’s Fate If The Connors Stop Skynet’s Creation " about what happens to Cameron if/once John dies, and J-Day not happening; Cameron at some point if she succeeds John, she might have to self-terminate anyways (John dying of natural old age would allow her to modify / override one of her mission parameters specific to protecting John's life). For natural reasons like machine parts wearing out, lack of metal alloys and machine process to manufacture new ones. Her internal powersource eventually nears expiration date. Some accident busts her up real good, she can't repair herself, etc. Who knows how far or little mankind's technology will have developed by then - maybe she'd still more advanced than the technology of that time period, or maybe she's too obsolete. A million and one open ended possibilities there. Theres also a Jean Claude Van Damn movie out there of a similar concept, he meets this human looking android woman in his adult life, they fall in love, but by the end of the show he grows old and dies of old age, and she lovingly buries him, still looking not a day older than when they first met. The Highlander showcases that same concept when immortality succeedes mortal lives. So basically John dying would be like the last words in a chapter within a book of Cameron at the halfway point. Then a new chapter begins to be written onwards, until at some point where she too nears the final pages at the end of her book of life.
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Post by vicheron on Feb 10, 2009 6:53:50 GMT -5
We don't know if pretzel girl self-terminated. Her chip could have simply been designed with a tamper proof seal.
Terminators may not be able to self terminate but they can follow a course of action that could lead to their destruction if it was a part of their mission. It's not like the Terminator in T1 didn't know that there was always a chance that it would be destroyed in its attempt to kill Sarah Connor. It obviously has the ability to assess the risks vs. benefit of its actions. After the first chase scene, it fled, presumably because it thought that the risk of being destroyed by the police before it could kill Sarah was too great. However, it didn't try to flee at any point at the end of the movie even though it was suffering more and more damage. So it would seem that Terminators have preserve their existence as long as it does not significantly compromise their missions. If pretzel girl had been programmed not to be compromised by the enemy then it could logically follow a course of action that would lead to her destruction.
Also, Uncle Bob did manage to override the directive to obey John Connor. He always had to listen to John, even when it put John in danger, until the very end when he decided to sacrifice himself. However, he still wasn't able to self terminate.
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k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
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Post by k8ie on Feb 10, 2009 13:34:58 GMT -5
Her chip could have simply been designed with a tamper proof seal. That's how I read that scene: either because of changes to the timeline following Sarah and John's jump to the future or as a result of its own intelligence gathering, Skynet is aware that the resistance has been reprogramming terminators and has begun equipping new models with tamper-proof chips - the electronic equivalent of spiking your guns when you're about to be overrun.
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terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
Posts: 445
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Post by terrasj on Feb 10, 2009 23:25:50 GMT -5
Her chip could have simply been designed with a tamper proof seal. That's how I read that scene: either because of changes to the timeline following Sarah and John's jump to the future or as a result of its own intelligence gathering, Skynet is aware that the resistance has been reprogramming terminators and has begun equipping new models with tamper-proof chips - the electronic equivalent of spiking your guns when you're about to be overrun. True, that'd be an effective manual anti-tamper device, it activates when the cap is turned a quarter turn to open the compartment. But only until a way is found around it, and disarm the explosive mechanism. That cap is only the easy way of getting to the chip, and while not having to destroy the cranium to get at it. Or would that only work if removal of the chip is attempted while the unit's still online? I do have an alternate idea to this: Thats where self-termination by issuing the command to ignite the chip could be more foolproof. The reasoning behind this draws right back to the spy and secret agents, as we'd see exampled in movies, where they'd have one tooth hollowed out and contains cyanide. A hard bite down on the tooth to break the seal and its instant death, and rendering one's knowledge and secrets safe from the captors. If the new Victoria line of Terminators had the feature to self-ignite the chip, most presumably the memorybank portion of the chip would be the end that gets nuked with a small explosive charge added onto the standard cpu chip. Effectively, this could also be like an aftermarket addon, installed on all current models of Terminators, a small explosive charge wired onto the chip, and a self-destruct command code added to the core programming. I wholeheartedly agree that any changes in the past only helps advance new preventative measures within the future. I don't think its just John's tampering with the chips in the past, but more than likely Cameron herself being the sole reason for Skynet's 'policy change' on new Terminator models (with some form of cpu chip anti-tamper / self destruct mechanisim). Cameron's presence in the current past must be effecting some changes in events, thanks to her advanced design (by Skynet for an improved infiltrator).... Uh-oh, this just opens another time-travel paradox... possible migraine alert here: Thanks to Cameron's involvement and changes in the present (past) , what if Skynet realizes and does one of 2 things: A.) When it comes to the point of manufacturing the specific 715 Cameron design, Skynet installs that same anti-tamper mechanism B.) Prevents the production of a unit so advanced as the 715's , therefore no Cameron is created. The present Cameron would only be safe for as long as she remains functional and intact as she's material presence, so she can be present later on within the same future timeline to be able to send herself back to the past again for a second timeloop. Now that'd be a wierd sense of deja-vu for the single and current existing Cameron, re-living the past events all over again, and knowing what she all knows now up to this point...
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Post by vicheron on Feb 12, 2009 0:23:07 GMT -5
The problem with giving the Terminator the ability to self terminate is that they can't do that if they're off line just as a spy can't bite down on the cyanide pill if he or she is unconscious.
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Post by nordwest on Feb 16, 2009 17:01:29 GMT -5
I think that the writers are damaging my favourite character. I think that she has lost much of her mysthery which came from her unknow intentions and suprising actions like the ballet scene. Of course, her intentions are still unkonw but there is no loger questioning around her. She is not hiding stuff, not openly lying to Sarah.
I fear, that the writers make a crazy robot out of her - crazy by a damaged chip. But I think, it would be much deeper and more interesting if all her actions are caused by some hidden agenda and if she takes her free will to make her own decisions.
In S2 Weaver is now already more mystherious than Cameron.
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