Post by richardstevenhack on Sept 28, 2008 7:23:27 GMT -5
Well, if you've read my posts elsewhere on the board, you know I'm totally down with the John-Cameron "romance" - or perversion, depending on your viewpoint and worldliness! ;D ;D ;D
See, if you buy my theory that Cameron came back in time on her own initiative - and John never sent her back - with the intent of escaping her fate in the future when the humans win, and with the intent of seducing John Connor to make him HER protector in THIS time and the future as much as she is HIS protector, then it all starts to make some sense.
There's absolutely no doubt in my mind after the bedroom scene in "Vic's Chip" - not John stroking her hair, but the conversation earlier - that Cameron has every intention of seducing John. She was designed for that by Skynet and possibly by future John as well. The whole "Vic married to Barbara" thing was such a telegraph of that concept that either Josh is very ham-handed - or he has twists still to reveal about all that.
After that episode, it's also pretty clear that Terminators are both "anatomically correct" and able to "perform" if they have to - although their range of emotional response is still somewhat limited. I mean, in the future, how much would Skynet know about human sexual relations - without having a lot of porn movie downloads to watch (and that really would limit their emotional responses!)? It's killed off half the human population and driven the rest underground. Only the ones it captures could it interrogate to make its Terminators more able to simulate humans. Unless it got all that info as part of its initial evolution to self-awareness.
We don't know what would have happened had Sarah not walked in smelling nail polish. Just as we don't know what would have happened had Sarah not walked in on Cameron standing over Reese with a pillow...which in movies or TV usually signifies somebody about to be smothered to death.
Cameron is here for her own reasons. She NEEDS John Connor to survive just as much as he needs her. To the extent that translates as "love", then she "loves" him. Summer is kind of right when she says that, although I don't think she's fully aware of the concept Josh has for the character. I'm just speculating here.
In Episode one this season, we saw her real "emotions" come out. She overplayed her hand with all that "I love you and you love me" stuff, as Josh has hinted at. But I believe the part about "I don't want to go" was a her true legitimate reactions to being threatened with "termination."
Unlike the other Terminators who have no sense of self-preservation, despite having a sense of "self-awareness", I believe Cameron does. Self-awareness is not the defining characteristic of a living organism - self-preservation is. Self-awareness is possible even in some mammals - I think they just reported studies of crows being able to distinguish individuals - and birds don't have much in the way of brains. So I think Cameron is self-aware, has developed a sense of self-preservation, and a desire to survive. Whether that was because of Skynet programming, future John's reprogramming, or a combination of the two, or just an accident, I think she has it.
As for John's feelings, James Middleton said in an interview that future John "has embraced the enemy" as part of his strategy to win against Skynet, regardless of how it looks to any other humans. We saw that in episode one when he reactivates the Caminator over the objections of his own mother.
Middleton's phrase pretty much spells it out in my opinion.
In "D&D" we were told that "Connor doesn't have any friends and he doesn't talk to anyone." But in episode 2 of last season we were told that John told Cameron of all people about Sarah reading the "Wizard of Oz'" stories to him. So we know he talks to Cameron in the future.
And John's motivation for his feelings is the same as Cameron's for him. He spells it out in episode one: "She saved my life. She SAVES my life!" Notice the different phrasing. Cameron offers him the one way he can ever have any kind of relationship without putting another human woman in total jeopardy at all times. He's seen his mother dump Charley over that paranoia and fear. He sees that in his own future. Cameron offers him a way out. He may not consciously think this, but I think he sees this subconsciously. And he knows that she is devoted - for whatever reasons, her programming or his - to protect him, even more so than his mother.
Humans "fall in love" with cars and computers for much less than that.
Of course, if he does think of this consciously, his reaction would be like his reaction to Charley's questioning in the deleted scene: he'd "deny it totally" to use Furlong's comment about Sarah and Kyle. But sooner or later, I think, in his unguarded moments, he will acknowledge that he does in some sense love Cameron and see her as a way of dealing with his isolation from the rest of humanity.
Somebody on the Superiorpics forum said it seemed pathetic that the "savior of mankind" ends up "locked in a bunker with his love-bot". He thought that was kind of pathetic. But that wouldn't surprise anyone who's studied great men in human history.
So I say: bring it on! ;D ;D ;D
But don't make this show into a soap opera! No huggy-kissy crap! Just let it be a lot of "soulful looks" and the odd hair-stroking like in "Vic's Chip".
I mean, they ran that stuff in the TV series "Beauty and the Beast" until people were screaming for Vincent and Catherine to get together! ;D ;D ;D
See, if you buy my theory that Cameron came back in time on her own initiative - and John never sent her back - with the intent of escaping her fate in the future when the humans win, and with the intent of seducing John Connor to make him HER protector in THIS time and the future as much as she is HIS protector, then it all starts to make some sense.
There's absolutely no doubt in my mind after the bedroom scene in "Vic's Chip" - not John stroking her hair, but the conversation earlier - that Cameron has every intention of seducing John. She was designed for that by Skynet and possibly by future John as well. The whole "Vic married to Barbara" thing was such a telegraph of that concept that either Josh is very ham-handed - or he has twists still to reveal about all that.
After that episode, it's also pretty clear that Terminators are both "anatomically correct" and able to "perform" if they have to - although their range of emotional response is still somewhat limited. I mean, in the future, how much would Skynet know about human sexual relations - without having a lot of porn movie downloads to watch (and that really would limit their emotional responses!)? It's killed off half the human population and driven the rest underground. Only the ones it captures could it interrogate to make its Terminators more able to simulate humans. Unless it got all that info as part of its initial evolution to self-awareness.
We don't know what would have happened had Sarah not walked in smelling nail polish. Just as we don't know what would have happened had Sarah not walked in on Cameron standing over Reese with a pillow...which in movies or TV usually signifies somebody about to be smothered to death.
Cameron is here for her own reasons. She NEEDS John Connor to survive just as much as he needs her. To the extent that translates as "love", then she "loves" him. Summer is kind of right when she says that, although I don't think she's fully aware of the concept Josh has for the character. I'm just speculating here.
In Episode one this season, we saw her real "emotions" come out. She overplayed her hand with all that "I love you and you love me" stuff, as Josh has hinted at. But I believe the part about "I don't want to go" was a her true legitimate reactions to being threatened with "termination."
Unlike the other Terminators who have no sense of self-preservation, despite having a sense of "self-awareness", I believe Cameron does. Self-awareness is not the defining characteristic of a living organism - self-preservation is. Self-awareness is possible even in some mammals - I think they just reported studies of crows being able to distinguish individuals - and birds don't have much in the way of brains. So I think Cameron is self-aware, has developed a sense of self-preservation, and a desire to survive. Whether that was because of Skynet programming, future John's reprogramming, or a combination of the two, or just an accident, I think she has it.
As for John's feelings, James Middleton said in an interview that future John "has embraced the enemy" as part of his strategy to win against Skynet, regardless of how it looks to any other humans. We saw that in episode one when he reactivates the Caminator over the objections of his own mother.
Middleton's phrase pretty much spells it out in my opinion.
In "D&D" we were told that "Connor doesn't have any friends and he doesn't talk to anyone." But in episode 2 of last season we were told that John told Cameron of all people about Sarah reading the "Wizard of Oz'" stories to him. So we know he talks to Cameron in the future.
And John's motivation for his feelings is the same as Cameron's for him. He spells it out in episode one: "She saved my life. She SAVES my life!" Notice the different phrasing. Cameron offers him the one way he can ever have any kind of relationship without putting another human woman in total jeopardy at all times. He's seen his mother dump Charley over that paranoia and fear. He sees that in his own future. Cameron offers him a way out. He may not consciously think this, but I think he sees this subconsciously. And he knows that she is devoted - for whatever reasons, her programming or his - to protect him, even more so than his mother.
Humans "fall in love" with cars and computers for much less than that.
Of course, if he does think of this consciously, his reaction would be like his reaction to Charley's questioning in the deleted scene: he'd "deny it totally" to use Furlong's comment about Sarah and Kyle. But sooner or later, I think, in his unguarded moments, he will acknowledge that he does in some sense love Cameron and see her as a way of dealing with his isolation from the rest of humanity.
Somebody on the Superiorpics forum said it seemed pathetic that the "savior of mankind" ends up "locked in a bunker with his love-bot". He thought that was kind of pathetic. But that wouldn't surprise anyone who's studied great men in human history.
So I say: bring it on! ;D ;D ;D
But don't make this show into a soap opera! No huggy-kissy crap! Just let it be a lot of "soulful looks" and the odd hair-stroking like in "Vic's Chip".
I mean, they ran that stuff in the TV series "Beauty and the Beast" until people were screaming for Vincent and Catherine to get together! ;D ;D ;D