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Post by bowman on Apr 13, 2009 20:20:23 GMT -5
As long as the new found knowledge of Allison doesnt veer him off course. I'm just annoyed they not only combined those two time lines and left Cameron's endo behind, but also that Summer's character is walking around like Garret Dillahunt. That's just creepy.
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timstuff
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Post by timstuff on Apr 14, 2009 0:06:06 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that Cameron's program is inside the Turk, and John Henry relocated himself onto Cameron's chip. If my interpretation is correct, Cameron does not currently exist on her own chip. When John gets the chip back, the first order of business will be to plug it into the Turk and get Cam's data back on it.
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schmacky
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Post by schmacky on Apr 14, 2009 0:12:04 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that Cameron's program is inside the Turk, and John Henry relocated himself onto Cameron's chip. If my interpretation is correct, Cameron does not currently exist on her own chip. When John gets the chip back, the first order of business will be to plug it into the Turk and get Cam's data back on it. I say Ellison and Sarah set a trap outside of Depot 37 and steal Carter's chip. If Carter's chip won't fit into Cameron's head.. they can just drill a bigger hole in her head and make it fit
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timstuff
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Post by timstuff on Apr 14, 2009 1:21:23 GMT -5
It'd have been nice if the solution were that simple... Unfortunately though, Cameron's chip has a more complex architecture than that of a T-888. The first pic, is Cam's chip, and on the second is the T-888 chip. Cameron has shown herself to be a lot more personable then the other Terminators, and I'm guessing that she's either an advanced prototype built by Skynet, or a new class of cyborg that was built by the robo!resistance using the T-888's blueprints as a base (the fact that Vick was unable to identify her seems to suggest something like this). In any case though, I'm guessing that Cameron's program would have some compatibility problems if they tried to run it on a CPU that didn't have the processing power. Or as Bill Cosby would put it...
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Post by tupler on Apr 14, 2009 1:23:22 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that Cameron's program is inside the Turk, and John Henry relocated himself onto Cameron's chip. If my interpretation is correct, Cameron does not currently exist on her own chip. When John gets the chip back, the first order of business will be to plug it into the Turk and get Cam's data back on it. If she is inside the Turk then she might become the anti-skynet entity John Henry was supposed to evolve into, at least if she has net access. Hopefully they'll switch back as I, as everyone else I suppose, much preferred her to John Henry.
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Apr 14, 2009 5:50:33 GMT -5
As long as the new found knowledge of Allison doesnt veer him off course. Like Timstuff said, that'll test John, test his love for Cameron, see if he'll stay true to Cameron. We have to realize Allison's a whole different girl, and maybe someone else's girl at the same time. Since we can't exactly step into John's shoes, for us it would be the same equivilant of knowing a favorite character onscreen, and then meeting the actor / actress in person, and spending half a day in their company, and finding out while its the same body and voice, their mannerism, how they talk and react, and their personality widely varies from their onscreen character. Of course this varies from actor to actor, as some totally detach themselves when playing that character - becoming a whole new persona, and some actors bring their personality into the characer they're playing. Summer's character, you mean Allison (the real girl Cameron was based on) or do you mean Cameron's chip being inside John Henry (Dillahunt)? I don't have too much of a problem of how the timelines got combined, with John crossing over into the future thats been altered now, directly by his jumping forward from present. As others mentioned, rather than just repeating the same old time loop of events, it creates a new alternative future, which is interesting to explore. One thing about Terminator's time travel is *it shouldn't* allow non organic material to be transported through. It has to be organic - living tissue like skin and hair. T1000's molecular structure mimic's skin and hair at the micro cell level so it passes through. Any that isn't covered in living tissue shouldn't go through. Hence Cameron's body was visibly scuffed by the prisonbreak firefight - alot of her skin was shredded off with her endoskeleton exposed. Therefore she didn't come through with Weaver and John. However, theres one little continuity glitch that TSCC, right from the Season 1, Episode 1 - in the bank vault, they activated the portal, and zapped through just as Cromartie breached the vault door and lunged for them. When the Connors and Cameron arrived, they were naked, but also somehow Cromartie's head came through as the portal activated, severing it from the body. Continuity glitch aside, while we the audience know all this meta-knowledge, John Connor doesn't, or at the very least doesn't know a whole lot about it, except that your naked when you arrive at the other end of the time travel. In the scene, Weaver's activating the time travel system, an electrical energy sphere / field forms and is large enough to encompass Weaver, Cameron's body in the chair, John standing behind Cameron's body, hand on her chair / shoulder, and Sarah: Sarah backing out of the bubble, shakes her head and grimly says: "John, we can't"
John (face contorts emotionally): "He's got her chip... He's got her- ... Mom..."
Sarah: "I'll stop it."
- time sphere counts down to zero, teleports John and Weaver to the basement in the future, post J-Day-
John (looking around): "Where's Cameron? Where's her body?"
Weaver: "It doesn't go through."The thing that makes this so sad and beautiful at the same time is, John unquestioningly made up his mind, to go with Weaver and to retrieve Cameron's chip. John assumed that since Cameron still had a fair percentage of skin on her endoskeleton, she'd be transporting along with John, so he'd be able to reactivate her when he gets the chip. He likely didn't know or understand that any of Cam's endoskeleton exposed would disqualify her body from coming along. Hence a bit of shock and looking around for Cameron's (albiet naked) body. Secondly, so Cameron's body got left behind, John also didn't realize or have time to realize that even if her body had come with him into the future, the body would be just as innert and useless once John manages to retrieve the chip. Since Cameron's persona was transfered onto the Turk and its server array, and John Henry's persona occupies the chip now. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been displaying on a blue computer screen several repeating lines of "I'm Sorry, John". Its essentially what anyone (or almost anyone) would do for an ill, injured, captured, or dying loved one, selflessly travel to the far end of the planet and through Dante's 9 infern0 pits of Hell, anything, just to save / rescue the person they love. Even if its danger and risk to their own lives. And interestingly, John arrives in post Judgment Day because he's going after Cameron's chip so he can restore Cameron to her full uniqueness. And rightfully, John considers that specific chip to be very much a part of Cameron. Now, the big thing is - Why is Cameron's chip so important to John? Its a part of Cameron yes. But we the audience, nor does John know if that chip is special in the sense that something happened in the manufacturing process that made this chip unique - and allowing Cameron arive and evolve to this current state - overiding her core programing and functions, or be it a cumulative of all Cameron's experiences up to present, or even if the Jeep explosion all took part in making, affecting, and allowing Cameron's persona to develop the way that it did. Who Cameron is and has become, is unique, she's her own individual, much like any one of us humans. And John is risking alot wanting to get her chip back so she's whole again, the unique individual Cameron had become, who John's fallen in love with. Thats love, affection and devotion. What makes it a great story IMHO, is the trials and tribulations of touch and go they went through the 2 seasons, and only near the end has John and Cameron begun to pickup where their growing affection left off in Vick's Chip. And through all that John's lost so quickly and so recently, Cameron's litterally that one spark still burning strong within John. And thats worth fighting for.
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Post by samuel95 on Apr 14, 2009 7:29:13 GMT -5
However, theres one little continuity glitch that TSCC, right from the Season 1, Episode 1 - in the bank vault, they activated the portal, and zapped through just as Cromartie breached the vault door and lunged for them. When the Connors and Cameron arrived, they were naked, but also somehow Cromartie's head came through as the portal activated, severing it from the body. . Josh has repeatedly pointed out that the head had skin on it. It was a working skin covered head. Unfortunately you have to watch the scene a few times to see the skin burn off. It's poor post-production, not a continuity glitch. I was thinking, "John, you dummy of course and inert robot isn't going to go through." Teenagers.
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timstuff
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Post by timstuff on Apr 14, 2009 14:57:35 GMT -5
It's probably for the best that Cam's body didn't come through. Could you imagine what'd happen if the Resistance soldiers found it? They'd probably dismantle her for spare parts. Anyway, last night, I realized a unique parallel between John and his father, Kyle... Kyle fell in love with Sarah Connor from her photograph, and he traveled across time to save her. John fell in love with Cameron through their time together, and likewise, when he perceived Cameron's life to be in danger, he traveled through time to save her. I guess that when you're of the Reese lineage, traveling through time to save a girl is pretty much the romantic most thing a man can aspire to.
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Post by vargatom on Apr 14, 2009 15:11:17 GMT -5
Since Cameron's persona was transfered onto the Turk and its server array, and John Henry's persona occupies the chip now. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been displaying on a blue computer screen several repeating lines of "I'm Sorry, John". Well, the 'persona' in the Turk could be as simple as this: 10 print "I'M SORRY JOHN" 20 goto 10 ...so there's not much to support this option. I also think that the Turk hardware isn't advanced enough to store a Terminator's software components and memory contents; whereas a Terminator CPU is certainly more advanced and probably capable of storing the John Henry AI entity completey in addition to the Cameron persona. ZeiraCorp is also a prime target for further Kaliba attacks, and the next HK could be armed with bombs or missiles to destroy the entire building, so Cameron would have to be quite stupid to download into such a dangerous place. It also makes sense from a storytelling point, as John could meet Cameron in a different form (that of Cromartie) which should help him view the robot from a new perspective. As an example, Cameron hasn't really got a gender to begin with...
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timstuff
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Post by timstuff on Apr 14, 2009 16:31:43 GMT -5
It is possible that both Cameron and John Henry are on Cameron's chip, but I wouldn't say that it's impossible for Cameron to be inside of the Turk hardware. The Turk is networked with a bunch of other computers as well, and it's also hooked up to a huge data server that would have more than enough room to store Cameron's program. Cameron may be limited by the Turk's harware though, so to most function she was able to perform was the "I'm Sorry John" message. Think of it kind of like being tied to a chair, and the only way you could speak was by blinking mores code.
I would make the argument though that Cameron's female gender is a part of her identity at the programming level. Cameron clearly enjoys "being a girl" and has demonstrated it un numerous occasions. If you compare the way she behaves to Uncle Bob, there's a very clear feminine influence on everything she does. Uncle Bob liked motor cycles, biker clothes, and smiled for the first time when he held a helicopter gun. Cameron however, likes wearing girlie clothes and gussying up, dances ballet, and doesn't really seem to have the same fascination with firepower that Uncle Bob did. Because her gender programming is designed to make her as convincing of a female as possible, it has to influence everything she does on a subconscious level. There's no reason for Cameron to want to look pretty, but she does anyway. The urge to be feminine makes Cameron a more convincing infiltrator, because it's something that real human women have, and influences their behavior, even if it's in very subtle ways that even they are not always aware of.
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Post by vargatom on Apr 14, 2009 17:37:11 GMT -5
Good point about Cameron probably having feminine aspects in her programing... Though it may still be the same for her as it would be to use black and green paint for camouflage And using the Turk for her is like using a cluster of C64s to try to run a PS3 program - sounds unlikely. On the other hand you could easily emulate the C64 completely on the PS3 and still play the new Terminator Salvation videogame But the creators didn't really hint about the processing power behind John Henry, so it's all theoretical. That's why I've also mentioned that story wise it makes for more interesting material to have Cameron in the future - but with the rather drastic change of a different body, where she would be without most of her feminine qualities.
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Apr 14, 2009 18:54:10 GMT -5
samuel95: Ahh, ok, n/p there. Cameron's body was inert, but her skin was still alive. Its just for the Terminators to be sent through, they have to be totally encased within living tissue. No endoskeleton exposed. There was fair amount of metal exposure on her face, let alone how chewed up the skin on her chest, arms, and torso was from bullets. It's probably for the best that Cam's body didn't come through. Could you imagine what'd happen if the Resistance soldiers found it? They'd probably dismantle her for spare parts. No kidding! John would've been put in a really bad spot, defending her while making enemies with the Resistance. That really would've torn John up inside but good. While there may be a rogue metal faction in the future timeline John arrived in, this was clearly Derek and Kyle's company, and we know Derek's disposition towards metals. It also could have also affected a major turn of events. If Allison saw her face on Cameron's shot up body, talk about some major repercussions there - since Allison hadn't been captured yet, and SkyNet (or the rogue metal faction) hadn't created Cameron's model yet. The resistance might be more careful and prevent Allison's chance of getting captured, thus no chance of Cameron could come into existance. By the same token, it might also make things bad for Allison, given her lookalike metal counterpart laying lifeless on the ground. The Resistance might suspect her being a Grey or something. Lock her up, keep her under close watch. Nice catch! ...so there's not much to support this option. I also think that the Turk hardware isn't advanced enough to store a Terminator's software components and memory contents; whereas a Terminator CPU is certainly more advanced and probably capable of storing the John Henry AI entity completey in addition to the Cameron persona. ZeiraCorp is also a prime target for further Kaliba attacks, and the next HK could be armed with bombs or missiles to destroy the entire building, so Cameron would have to be quite stupid to download into such a dangerous place. Why not? The Turk is big enough to store John Henry's persona. All the Turk is a mini Towercase - a home network multimedia server storage unit / NAS (Network Attached Storage), (a motherboard, cpu, power supply, a few sticks of ram and 4 HD's). The Turk: Close but not quite... Similar 4 bay NAS / Media Server units: HP MediaSmart HomeSans Digital TR4M-B TowerRAID 4 Bay SATA to eSATA (Port Multiplier) JBOD / RAID 0/1/1+0/5 EnclosureThe Turk's extended rackmount Server array (full wall, from right to extreme left): Cameron's CPU (Thanks Tim!) There's analogy to be looked at here: Back in the 50's, a single computer was the size of an entire classroom or larger. By the time the 80's came around, silicone micro circuitry technology fabrication was able to reduce a room sized computer's processing power into the size of a 2" x 2: x 1/16" (W x L x D) size of a chip. Thats micronization of technology. We've got the exact same size ratio comparison here: Cameron's advanced cpu chip : aprox 1" x 2 1/5 or 3" x 1/16" (W x L x D). And it takes the entire wall rack of servers in John Henry's room (the entire wall, so wide that it can't be taken in by a single camera lens) to attain the equivilant of processing power. That entire wall length of servers is mostly for processing power for the A.I that is John Henry persona. Every physical cpu adds to the total processing capability by 100%. Given that John Henry's body still has 2 auxilery CPU's for body control and function, only a firewire or usb cable like tether is needed for connecting the body to the rack mount server system which is acting in place of John Henry's primary cpu chip. And apparently it has processing power to spare as its simultaneously multitasking numerous other sub-systems, monitering video feeds, etc. Physical storage capacity is an entirely different matter, but it also shares a similar analogue in hardware size comparison. What might be a single one of those tiny cubes on Cameron's chip is probably the equivilant of a 4 hardrive = 3 Terrabyte Raid (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks) array. And such an array is in the Turk's 4 bay enclosure. The Turk's enclosure also has a motherboard, cpu, ram, power supply, and a network port. Should the Turk be disconnected, and powered up stand alone to a monitor, while it probably could run the AI software, at best it would be majorly hindered by the single physical cpu, but by the same token, its only input and output would be limited to your standard computer peripherals - keyboard, internet connection, monitor, webcam, and maybe a pair of cheap pc speakers. And playing Chess software is primarily how it started out. It only had the chance to fully improve and learn once it was connected to the server rack setup, where that extra processing power afforded near unlimited rate of growth in a very short time span (durration of season 2). As for Cameron's case, her persona probably traded places with John Henry, to be stored inside the Turk. As long as Sarah or Murch or Ellison grabs Cameron's body and the Turk itself on the way out of Zeira Corp's basement, then Cameron's persona could still be mostly protected. The Turk's enclosure is small and conveniantly portable. And thats the important part. The rest of the rack server array os auxillery and redundant to Cameron's survival. If John managed to retrieve Cameron's chip, then jumps back to present day, plugs it into Cameron, he'll find its John Henry only. It'd be a case of hooking the chip up to the Turk, like they did in season 1, and swap the 2 persona's around. Then Cameron could be restored. This doesn't make anyone right or wrong, its just my best guess there
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Post by rove3 on Apr 15, 2009 16:33:54 GMT -5
I have never considered myself a John/Cameron shipper in the romantic sense but I have always loved the chemistry between TD and SG - which naturally spilled over into the characters they play. While I've never been opposed to or weirded out by any potential physical romance between them, I have to confess to never thinking it would come off as believable since Cameron is, after all, a machine. Having seen the motel/bed scene in the finale though I have reversed that line of thinking. They could totally pull it off. Despite the fact that John having his hand on Cameron's cold, metal inner parts should have been a blatant reminder to him of her metalness, I found that I was as transfixed by the scene as John appeared to be. I didn't see a human and a robot, I only saw John and Cameron.
If the show gets renewed (and I SOOOO hope that it does) then I will be sad that Cameron will apparently be out of the picture at least for awhile. I don't know if it's a cop-out for the writers to use Allison as a way for John to sort of be "with" Cameron while avoiding the whole robot love/sex angle - it probably is - but I'm not opposed to it. TD and SG would still have their wonderful chemistry so I couldn't complain too much about that. It would be sort of funny to see if John would be weirded out more by human Allison than he ever was about robot Cameron. It's also interesting that in this timeline it would seem that John's affinity for Allison (as hinted at in AFP) will stem from his bonds with Cameron, instead of working the other way around as we had all assumed.
I definately need a S3 now.
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timstuff
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Post by timstuff on Apr 16, 2009 0:08:26 GMT -5
I do think it would feel phony if John went with the more "acceptable" option of Allison instead of following his true feelings. I mean, I want to like Allison as a character, because she has shown to be a brave and strong willed character, and my initial impression of her is that she might be a sweet girl. However, that doesn't mean she's right for John, or vise-versa. I think John is in love with Cameron, and if he tried to carry that baggage with him into a relationship with Allison, it would not be fair for either of them. Whenever John sees Allison, he's going to think of Cameron, and poor Allison would always have to wonder if when John touches her, he's secretly imagining that she's Cameron. There are just so many problems with a John / Allison relationship that I just don't see it happening. Allison is the perfect opportunity to test how pure John's feelings for Cameron are, but if he fails the test I will be very disappointed both in his character and with the show's writers.
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Post by tupler on Apr 20, 2009 14:37:22 GMT -5
I think John is in love with Cameron, and if he tried to carry that baggage with him into a relationship with Allison, it would not be fair for either of them. Whenever John sees Allison, he's going to think of Cameron, and poor Allison would always have to wonder if when John touches her But John did go with Riley - as Cameron was just a machine. Now there would be a real girl again. And cute too. Or maybe she is going with John's father, they did come to the scene at the same time. Actually I don't care if there is a "John and Allison" or not but wish Summer Glau gets to act more Allison than Cameron. Look in the first episode, for example about 30 minutes from beginning, her concerned eyes when John says "just the way your programmed" and Cameron replies "in the future you have many friends" - I don't think all actresses can seem that concerned even if they do their best. It was not the best episode as whole but her acting in it was more lively. Or maybe there's a good director who asks for such eyes. Also might mean less time applying all the makeup or whatever it all is they use to make her look like a wounded robot and more time devoted to acting. She does a good robot but is a shame that after first episode the robot shows less emotion, as the robot obviously can show them.
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